Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:37 am Post subject:
Joe's rival CMOS waveshaper Subject description: Lots of o'scope photos!
Another thread inspired me to make this circuit
It uses a 4516 up/down presetable binary counter (4 bit output and input), a 4040 for some control of the inputs and an R2R ladder. Take these ideas and go mental with them and a breadboard
Below are oscilloscope photos, I will try to add a description on each photo of the set up I used to generate that waveform.
Output waveforms are shown against the input clock or one of the 4516 outputs.
Glitches often occured and it was sometimes difficult to get the same waveform twice however I think this was due to inputs being activated when the counter was mid-count and thus can be fixed by resetting the counter.
Schematics to come.
DSCN0670.JPG
Description:
sawtooth against clock
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3.09 MB
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447 Time(s)
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DSCN0668.JPG
Description:
stepped sawtooth against Q4 of 4516
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450 Time(s)
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DSCN0669.JPG
Description:
Different combination of inputs at the R2R ladder against Q4 of 4516, one input may be disconnected entirely.
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3 MB
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453 Time(s)
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DSCN0672.JPG
Description:
Different input combinations to the R2R ladder against clock
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468 Time(s)
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DSCN0686.JPG
Description:
I can only add 5 attachments to one post so here is a teaser of things to come :)
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452 Time(s)
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_________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:56 am Post subject:
More scope photos
DSCN0674.JPG
Description:
Different inputs to R2R ladder
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434 Time(s)
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DSCN0675.JPG
Description:
Up/down of 4516 controlled by a division of the clock frequency from the 4040 (probably about clock/512) against a Q output from the 4516 (not sure which one, I suspect Q4 but it may be Q3)
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2.94 MB
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440 Time(s)
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DSCN0677.JPG
Description:
Stepped triangle wave acheived by switching the up/down input every 16 clock cycles (I think, 32 may give you a bigger or higher-bit triangle) top wave is one of the 4516 Qs
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2.89 MB
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445 Time(s)
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DSCN0678.JPG
Description:
different trignale against clock, acheived by changing/removing R2R inputs and maybe the up/down inputs.
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2.97 MB
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430 Time(s)
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DSCN0679.JPG
Description:
I think this was triangle mode + reset controlled by an output from the 4040, bet it sounds good :)
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2.93 MB
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432 Time(s)
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_________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:11 am Post subject:
yet more scope photos!
DSCN0682.JPG
Description:
This is triangle wave mode with a different combination of inputs to the R2R ladder, I think this is may favorite :)
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2.99 MB
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441 Time(s)
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DSCN0681.JPG
Description:
This is the above, weird triangle wave again but at a higher frequency clock (pictured against clock waveform, top wave) I caught the scope mid-scan :)
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2.97 MB
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444 Time(s)
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DSCN0683.JPG
Description:
Different combinations of R2R inputs from the 4516 again
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3.02 MB
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427 Time(s)
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DSCN0684.JPG
Description:
another variant on R2R inputs, acctually I think this is against Q1 from the 4516.
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2.97 MB
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434 Time(s)
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DSCN0685.JPG
Description:
Now things are getting really interesting, unsure of how I made this one but I think it was a combination of changing the up/down count with the 4040 and maybe the "preset enable" input of the 4516.
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2.96 MB
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399 Time(s)
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_________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 am Post subject:
This is the last post of scope screen photos now honest! ... a video is coming next
DSCN0686.JPG
Description:
This one is made by changing the up/down count of the 4516 and activating the preset enable with some outputs form the 4040.
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2.95 MB
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432 Time(s)
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DSCN0687.JPG
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What is this I don't even. Yes I do :P It is made by combining the above ideas about activating the preset enable and changing the up/down count with outputs from the 4040, but also changing the preset inputs with the 4040 ... I think, the reset input may
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3 MB
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437 Time(s)
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_________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:38 am Post subject:
I know my camerawork is a bit shoddy but I was fiddling with a complex mess of wires on the breadboard off screen
I think there are two keys to getting really interesting waveforms here:
-Use different combintions of inputs to the R2R ladder, I only used a 4 bit ladder but 5 bit is possible by combining the clock input as well as the 4516 outputs
-Use a short trigger pulse on the preset-enable input, triggered by a division of the clock and have changing inputs to the preset enable from the 4040 which are lower frequency than the preset enable selector
All these waveforms were audio frequency however it is entirely possible to shape LFO waveforms with this circuit and use the subsequent wave to control a VCO or VCF or VCsomething _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Waveforms look just perfect Joe , i only hope there will be at least one final schematic of the circuit ,i find it kind of hard to understand them handwritten ,anyway it would be amazing to have such shaper for the modular , along with input and output buffers !
vlad
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:23 am Post subject:
vladosh wrote:
Waveforms look just perfect Joe ,
Thanks
vladosh wrote:
i only hope there will be at least one final schematic of the circuit ,i find it kind of hard to understand them handwritten
As do I. I will put something together but it won't be much more than a picture of the two chips and an R2R ladder, becaue so many of the connections are interchangeable.
Before I really do anything with this I'll make the preset enable input work better, at the moment it sort of holds the output at the preset binary input for a bit, then lets the counter go again. It needs a short trigger pulse like that from a differentiator/high pass filter. _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
i haven't got into the luneta game as fun as it is , i'm still building a more clasic modular but i still think this would be a great addition to a vco ,simply to have various waveforms or settings selectable with a rotating switch ,like a mini waveform bank , i guess this as cmos can be triggered with input as the ones we see at the cgs gate seq or yusynth clock divider - maybe i'm wrong anyway ..
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:17 am Post subject:
vladosh wrote:
i haven't got into the luneta game as fun as it is , i'm still building a more clasic modular but i still think this would be a great addition to a vco ,simply to have various waveforms or settings selectable with a rotating switch ,like a mini waveform bank , i guess this as cmos can be triggered with input as the ones we see at the cgs gate seq or yusynth clock divider - maybe i'm wrong anyway ..
Nope, you are right on track there you could input any square wave within the voltage limits of the chips and get out a nice shaped wave
The "preset enable" is an input on the 4516, which sets the output to whatever the four preset inputs are e.g.
If P1 to P4 are set to 0, then all outputs (Q1 to 4) will change to 0 when the preset enable input is activated (it is active high btw) and counting will continue from that point. So if P1 was 1 or high, and all other Ps were 0, then Q1 would change to high and all other Qs to 0.
I'll get down to a circuit diagram now _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 6067 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 730
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject:
wow, look at the steps on those waveforms, nice!
I'll try to stay away from it, since I allready got my hands full with the other one,
but I'll keep an eye on it. Very nice simple setup, now just add a bunch (11 ?) of rotary switches,
or muxes,
no that's crazy,
yes muxes,.
NO!, no muxes,.
is that even a word, muxes ?!
it also made me realize a big difference between an R/2R and the other setup; each input and combination
has a unique voltage, and you can get more steps out of it, with less resistors. nice stuff _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!" SoundCloudBandCampMixCloudTwitchYouTube The Golden Shrimp Guild
Thanks i got idea aprox about how it works ,but i have very little experience with cmos anyway ,hopefully at some point this will grow into a proper modular synth module (as it is already a luneta module) ,that 14 stage counter is good idea i guess
Yes those were muxes 4052 and so ... i say i don't know cmos .. anyway i still think at least best for me in a modular synth way would be to find the best 10 or 20? waveforms or so (nevermind the numbers) and make the whole thing with only 2 rotary switches and only one (or few ) outputs ,simple is good !
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject:
Imagine a man kneeling down in the rain in the night infront of a statue and yelling at the top of his lungs:
MUXES!
Yes, it is a word, very good ideas chaps, it is the solution, all hail the muxes. (reaching towards your heart while saying) KALI MA! KALI MAA! KALI MA- I mean, KALI MUX! KALI MUUX! KALI MUUUUUX!
...
I'm very sleep deprived, I am going to bed now, goodnight. _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:36 am Post subject:
Cynosure wrote:
Great work! Those crazy waveforms would be awesome lfo's to use with a VCO.
Thanks Yours is great too, it's inspiring
I'll probably shelve this for a week or so. I have some other things to work on and if I can get some sheet metal, something big. Well, I say big, it will be really interesting and look like a modular synth
P.S. I'd just like to add that I think my suspicion is right: the 4516 is out of synch with the clock pulses, the 4040 is more in synch and thus cuts some of the "steps" short when used to reset or preset the 4516.
Not a problem in lunettas really but it may only be due to the fact that my 4516 is about 30 years old _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Yes, YES YES!
This is exactly what the Re-Animator is all about Joe!
Just crank up the clock input by multiplying an incoming VCO square wave with the 4046 + divider.
Then "program" your counters with a certain way of building the wave (256*256) every wavelength.
My way of controlling the way the wave is built is by using ADCs to control "divide by variables". Yours could be by doing any number of Boolean transforms, as the wave evolves. I've even thought of using the LM3914 (which Ian uses to great effect in the 5 pulser) to setup voltage trigger points for the CMOS circuitry.
Very inspiring indeed. I have the beginings of this idea going onto the slab (breadboard) even as we speak.
I'll have to practice photographing my scope, so we can compare what's going on!,......?!? _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Joined: Nov 10, 2011 Posts: 878 Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14
Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:32 am Post subject:
Fantastic! Carry on the good work, I plan to use it with a 4046 multiplier too
RingMad sent me some tips on photographing the scope, do it in a dark room to avoid reflections and from atop a sturdy pile of books or sturdy piled things for improved steadyness.
I plan to make a veiwing hood for it with a camera lense shaped hole _________________ As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"
Fantastic! Carry on the good work, I plan to use it with a 4046 multiplier too
RingMad sent me some tips on photographing the scope, do it in a dark room to avoid reflections and from atop a sturdy pile of books or sturdy piled things for improved steadyness.
I plan to make a veiwing hood for it with a camera lense shaped hole
Very cool!
It's times like these, I wish I had a USB CRO. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
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honest! ... a video is coming next 
